@shag @a-monster @julia why don't you start by actually ignoring it then, rather than spamming this thread with the request to ignore it. This thread is messy enough as it is, please leave the room for people who actually have something on-topic to say.

By now you should all know what this thread is about. If you have nothing to add to it, or are no longer interested in it, simply don't go to the thread. No one is forcing you to read this, it is not a chatspace with multiple topics crossing each other in the same conversation.

@Obstriegel Before I argue any further I want to assert again that I admit that I did deserve a ban for the teamkilling (which I did not get), for my behavior earlier.

1. I still stand by my opinion that tuta did NOT make the right decision at that time. When he renamed me the teamkills were completely out-of-scope and in the past, I was playing nicely and quietly. Even though the teamkilling can sort-of justify action against me, tuta was unaware at the time, he merely responded to my name. You said it better then I ever could:

@Obstriegel said in "BlackGuy" renamed for racist reasons by Tuta:

@Springbok sure a decision of a master should be respected. But renaming to ArabGuy because he connects from a country where you assume that all people are arabs? wtf?
Seriously this is not the way to go.
If your parents did not teach you manners or you can't live up to them you should step away from being a master.

Sure, he targeted the right person, but in the wrong way (rename in stead of kick), completely coincidentally and for the wrong reasons.

Mistakes happen, but admitting them and learning from them goes a longer way than trying to cover them up. It really doesn't help anyone involved to keep looking for stuff justifying his mistakes.

To end I want to say that I'm sure @tuta can be a really good master some day, - his apology/ explanation about the pigeon strangling proves that to me. I believe he learned from this, that his mistake was one out of ignorance, not malice. If nothing else he'll think twice before messing with someone's name again (I HOPE!) , so some lessons learned by all this mess, which is good.

Have a nice day everyone, I mean it.

Midgets is soos bakstene: skadeloos totdat iemand hulle naar uw gesig gooi. - Nelson Mandela

@Obstriegel said in "BlackGuy" renamed for racist reasons by Tuta:

It also prints out reasons for its decisions. Which are:

• Ignorance of previous statements

Did I? I may have missed some, this thread got spammy real quick.

• Attacking other uninvolved people

I was attacked by other, uninvolved people. I simply retaliated.

• Missing link of forum behavior to previous in-game behavior

Granted.

Maybe we have to improve the Troll-O-Meter but I think it shows it pretty clear.

Seems to work fine to me.

Ah. That. It's true I was trolling a teamkiller by teamkilling him back. Shouldn't have done that, my bad. My apologies. I'm starting to understand now, but why is it only now that this surfaces

This is not the way to go and I do not believe you here. "blackguy" was using multiple IPs coming back just to interrupt the game of others.

Agreed about being an asshole. My name wasn't intended for offence though.

@tuta was just doing right intuitively banning you because you are an ass.
He did the perfectly right thing because you are someone who wants to cause trouble.

He didn't ban me, (which he should have), he renamed me (which he shouldn't have). Right target, wrong action.

The time difference also makes me doubt that @tuta renamed me because of the teamkills, given the time difference and the fact he never even once mentioned teamkilling to me...

That is true but now I am here and not tuta. And I can take a look into the logs and see what you actually did. And from my perspective it is clear that you behaved like an asshole putting out shit before by teamkilling then provoking some fight about a nickname.

Agreed, I deserve a ban. Your reasoning makes sense, tuta's reasoning doesn't.

As you try to get around automatic measures or actions taken by human masters you only make the situation worse.
I said it before you can apply to become a master. There is no racism involved and your actions can be forgiven.

How do I apply? I'm joking, but if Tuta got in even I might have half a chance. At least I speak English.

You're the best Obst, you're spot on, mature and respect the rules of debate. I admit my defeat to you.
I still stand by my opinion that tuta is an idiot, though. It's like he ran over baby Hitler with a bus, but only because he wasn't fan of the moustache.

I don't see myself as a troll, but I like debating just for the sport of it. It's something everyone involved learns a lot from... ...until someone lowers the level to mud throwing and threats.

(& btw @a-monster I really wasn't on sauer today so whoever messed with you, it wasn't me. I just admitted to being an asshole for the heck of it, so you can trust my honesty on this one).

@a-monster said in "BlackGuy" renamed for racist reasons by Tuta:

Just like you try about a hour ago to waste my time in the game. Senseless attempt.

@a-monster
What are you talking about? I haven't been on sauer today.

@julia
I said "I guess so", which means "yes".

@a-monster
No one is forcing you to read this thread. If you don't like what's being discussed here, move on with something else.
Also, trolls? really? It's not my intent to annoy people, I just wanted to engage in a civilised debate about what happened, so I can understand what I didn't understand before and so we can all learn from it. Unfortunately it feels like the art of proper debate is on the decline.

@julia said in "BlackGuy" renamed for racist reasons by Tuta:

Why do I go to the forum? I enjoy - Obst opens his amazing side of talent ...)
@SomeGuy simple question. Will you continue to use the name "BlackGuy"?

I guess so, no one has demonstrated a reason against it that I consider valid.
A honest question for you: how would you feel if someone was telling you that you can't use the name "aWoman" (sorry for gender-asuming you :p)? Or even worse, renamed you to "aMan"?

@Obstriegel said in "BlackGuy" renamed for racist reasons by Tuta:

@SomeGuy You broke rule number 1. You were acting silly about a stupid name change. Why don't you rename to SomeGuy or another name that does not get you into trouble?

Because there's absolutely no reason for that name alone to get me into trouble. If it's my behavior that gets me into trouble, fine. But there is nothing wrong with being black, so there's nothing wrong with having "Black" in a nickname. Treat the crime, not the identity.

You are allowed to express your religious believes if you want to but when you aggressively try to pm people saying "read the Bible/Quran or whatever" effectively annoying people we will take measures as we did before.

Makes sense, good rule. But I wasn't doing this. I wasn't spewing propaganda or harassing anyone with my blackness.

all I asked was an explanation which I never got.

There is a big problem with "blackguy" I saw in the logs.
This name was used before to massively teamkill people and trying to evade the automatic TK-bans.

Ah. That. It's true I was trolling a teamkiller by teamkilling him back. Shouldn't have done that, my bad. My apologies. I'm starting to understand now, but why is it only now that this surfaces? I was renamed (over an hour after the teamkilling!) from BlackGuy to ArabGuy, I never linked that to the teamkills. The time difference also makes me doubt that @tuta renamed me because of the teamkills, given the time difference and the fact he never even once mentioned teamkilling to me...
To be honest you also cherry-picked the logs to make me look more like an idiot. The part I was referring is the part that follows, where I was trying to engage in a civilised discussion to clear my confusion, but all I got was a "shut up or I'll mute you" from @tuta, but anway...

I'm also wondering, how does a rename to "ArabGuy" make it better? I can sort-of understand a rename to "unnamed", but I don't see how teamkilling with "Arab" in name is less problematic then with "Black" in name.

I understand the whole "using a minority name and being a dick to cause trouble" issue. (This wasn't my intent btw, my name is my name, the teamkills are unrelated).

Why not just kick/jail? for teamkilling? Best way to stop it, avoids confusion like this.)

I want to thank you @Obstriegel for being open for civilised debate,
rather then telling me to "go out and choke pigeons" - @tuta.
Being open for discussion and some form of accountability goes a long way in establishing mutual respect between masters and players, Regardless of "Hausrecht". Maybe something you could consider adding to your private guidelines for master.

Re: "BlackGuy" renamed for racist reasons by Tuta

@Obstriegel said in "BlackGuy" renamed for racist reasons by Tuta:

I must say bravo @tuta to act so calm. I would have just lifetime banned SomeGuy instantly for his nonsense blabbering now that I saw the chatlog. That is against our rules as he disturbs the game.

Nonsense blabbering? Really? Do you mind copy-pasting those logs here when you accuse me of such things? Someone started messing with my name, all I asked was an explanation which I never got. Given the circumstances I was extraordinarily polite. If you really don't understand why I was pissed try turning off your white privilege and put yourself in the shoes of a minority. If I was distracting people from the game with my chat messages, they could have disabled chat or used /ignore if they so choose, as you pointed out below.

While you're in the logs, look for the alleged "complains about (possible) racism in nick." tuta was referring to. You won't find them, it's a fucking lie, he's just making up excuses.

But the rules are simple:

• Apply common sense and try not to provoke people. You can disable the chat in the options completely.
• Play the game, try not to teamkill (last time I got banned for TK is 7 years ago)

So, which rule did I break exactly? I was minding my own business enjoying the game in silence before tuta felt the need to un-black my name. If you consider a black identity to be provokative you were born 80 years too late.

You're right about your "Hausrecht", you do whatever you want with your server, I agree. FYI I never asked or expected for tuta's rights to be removed. But Hausrecht doesn't mean I can't point out stupid shit that happens.
You do you man, ban everyone who isn't a straight white male. While you're at it burn some crosses in the yard. It's your yard after all.

@tuta could you ellaborate why you think you took the right actions?
I'm just trying to understand your reasoning so we can all learn from it.
What was wrong with my name, and how was "ArabGuy" better?